Everybody Into The Pool

The theme from "Jaws" was playing in my head while I was at Podcast Movement in Philadelphia last week, and it wasn't because Mark Ramsey was giving a talk about lessons learned from his producing the fine podcast "Inside Jaws." No, it was a sense of foreboding, the feeling that something ominous was brewing under the enthusiastic, positive surface of the podcasting convention, preparing to bite.

Okay, I'll admit that it was an extreme reaction to seeing so many commercial radio people at the convention. But commercial radio's incursion into the podcasting space, and its representation at the event, gave me some mixed feelings. On one hand, it's great -- and way overdue -- that the commercial radio industry is recognizing the potential of podcasting. On the other, there's the danger of some people from an industry that just recently discovered podcasting coming in with the "move over and let the big boys show you how it's done" attitude. I'm thankful that there wasn't a lot of the latter at Podcast Movement, probably because Jacobs Media chose the panels and participants wisely and because plenty of commercial radio people recognize that there's a lot to learn about the space, from hammering out effective measurement methods to what content works as podcasts. And the people placed in positions of power over podcasts at most of the major broadcast groups are people who do know their stuff.

My biggest concern, however, was that the commercial radio industry needs to come up with better answers for a pair of simple questions that podcasters should be asking them. The questions are:

What can commercial radio really do for podcasters that others can't? Why do podcasters NEED commercial radio?

There ARE answers to those questions, but I didn't hear them on the panels or in the hallways. Commercial radio CAN provide things like talent coaching, promotion, and sales assistance. It can lend its brands to help position local podcasts. Those are easy. But as far as the "need" part goes, radio has to prove that what it's offering is worth whatever percentage it'll take from the arrangement. I'm not sold that promotion of a podcast on the radio really makes any difference, because getting people to subscribe to or even just listen to a podcast requires a message that can be acted upon right away. An ad on the radio is several steps removed from clicking the "Subscribe" button, and most people aren't going to do that unless they're listening to the station on an app and a button appears on the screen when they hear the podcast mentioned. Even then, we don't know what motivates someone to subscribe. Maybe someone should fund research on that. Also, the audience for podcasting doesn't necessarily listen to the radio. Even NPR's podcasts aim at a different audience from the broadcast side, which is why they don't feel "Up First," for example, doesn't cannibalize the "Morning Edition" audience.

I'm not sure coaching is that attractive to podcast creators, either. There are many podcasters who chose that space because they would not have to answer to a program director or corporate desires. And the currently most successful styles of podcasting are practically anti-commercial-radio; They owe their styles to public radio, if anything. It's storytelling. Commercial radio itself needs to learn a lot about effective storytelling in this age of audio (I suggest they read Valerie Geller's book and listen to a lot of true crime podcasts to get a feel for where things are going). Expecting an industry that reduced itself to reading liner cards, voice tracking, and spouting "hot takes" to show others the way is a little much.

And sales is another issue. Commercial radio can sell ads for local podcasts, but I fear that might lead to podcasts being thrown in as "added value" to existing buys rather than being treated as their own entities. By now, everyone should be aware that digital sales is a different animal from traditional sales. It requires its own sales force that understands the different needs of digital sales, including the dilemma of metrics and the importance of selling results over reach.

Oh, and one more awkward moment: Asked if current commercial radio talent gets paid when they're asked to produce podcasts for the station, the panelists at one session hemmed, hawed, stammered, and fidgeted, ultimately offering "well, it's early in the game" as an answer. That's not a good answer. Producing a podcast is work. Work should be compensated. And it is separate from producing a radio show. Arguing that it's all covered by the base salary is not how it should work. Pay the people.

Finally, that "need" thing. I saw a bunch of radio companies doing promotions involving local podcasters getting to be part of the companies' initiatives, but I didn't see a lot of explanation of exactly why a show would NEED to be part of those efforts. That would be a helpful thing to explain. There are so many other options, from working with podcast-dedicated companies and networks to going it alone, that just showing up and telling podcasters that they could become part of your operation needs to be buttressed by more than just "we're here! Love us!" What's in it for them? Make a compelling case for that.

But I don't want any of that to blunt the importance of commercial radio being in the house for a podcasting convention. I've been in podcasting for longer than most, and while it's amusing to see and hear people who have been in the space for far less time -- in some cases, measured in weeks rather than years -- proclaim themselves experts in the field, that was the minority. Most of the commercial radio people who showed up are sincerely looking to learn and get in on the action, confident that the monetization will come and that radio people can adapt to the "next radio." As for when and if that will happen, the issues are too numerous for one column (which is why I've been writing about them for years), but I'm hopeful that the discussion will include commercial radio people and will continue long after all the Podcast Movement credit card charges have been paid.

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With my return from the convention (and a couple of days off), Talk Topics, the show prep column at All Access News-Talk-Sports, is back in regular update mode. It's where you'll find a lot of material to talk about, whether you do a talk show or a podcast or a morning show or just want to annoy the barista at Starbucks with an obscure weird story. Find it all by clicking here and/or by following the Talk Topics Twitter feed at @talktopics with every story individually linked to the appropriate item.

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Hello to all the folks I got to see at Podcast Movement; that was fun, wasn't it? Especially my frequent trips across the street to eat at Reading Terminal Market, and it was nice to see newcomers discover one of my favorite places on Earth. Now, it'll be a couple of months before the next convention (I'll be at the Radio Show in Orlando in September), so maybe the jet lag will wear off by then....

Perry Michael Simon
Vice President/Editor, News-Talk-Sports and Podcast
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